12052007PZMinutes
CITY OF AMMON
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MINUTES
WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 5, 2007
AGENDA:
CITY OF AMMON
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
December 5, 2007
2135 South Ammon Road 7:00 P.M.
I.Pledge of Allegiance:
II.Minutes:
October 3, 2007
III.Public Hearings: 2007-031
Preliminary Plat – River Bend Manor Subdivision
IV.Action Items:
A.
Recommendation on Public Hearing.
B.
Final Plat – Founders Pointe, Division #2
C.
Final Plat – The Villas, Division #3 .
V.Discussion Items:
VI.Reports:
A.
City Council actions
B.
City of Idaho Falls Planning and Zoning actions – Cindy Donovan
C.
Bonneville County Planning and Zoning actions – Tom Hunsaker
VII.
Call for Adjournment:
MINUTES
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Cindy Donovan at 7:00 p.m. in the City Building at 2135 South
Ammon Road, Ammon, Idaho
Members Present
: Cindy Donovan, Chairman
Tom Hunsaker
Robert Gustafson
Richard Jaussi
Scott Wessel
Quinn Simmons
Rick Butler
Members Absent
: Greg Maeser
City Officials Present
: Ron Folsom, Planning Director
Lance Bates, City Engineer
Gay Leming, Deputy Clerk
City Officials Absent
: None
Scott Wessel led the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
MINUTES:
October 3, 2007: Robert Gustafson motioned to accept the minutes as presented. Quinn Simmons
seconded. All in favor, the motion passed.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
:
Planning & Zoning 12/5/2007 - 1
1. 2007-031 Preliminary Plat – River Bend Manor Subdivision:
Cindy Donovan read the procedures for the
Public Hearing.
Cindy Donovan opened the Public Hearing 2007-031. Planning Director Ron Folsom explained where the
property is located. He explained it is currently zoned R2-A, which allows 12 units per acre. He explained there are
a total of 13 lots, 2 of which are dedicated to greenspace only. He explained the frontage along John Adams and
Curlew would be improved by this developer.
Tom Hunsaker commented we will be enforcing no parking on John Adams and asked if that will be the
same with Curlew. Lance Bates commented there will be no parking allowed on John Adams or Curlew.
Scott inquired if it is the developer’s intent to develop Curlew Drive to First Street. Ron Folsom stated the
developer will only build the portion of Curlew adjacent to his property.
Ron commented the road that runs through this subdivision will connect John Adams to Curlew, but will
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not complete Curlew to 1 or John Adams to Hitt.
Brian Hymel, 6482 Vinecrest SLC, Utah, stated he is the owner of the subject property. He stated the
zoning allows him to put up to 93 units – he is scheduled for 66 units. He explained they will have over 50%
greenspace within the units. He has not quite finished the architectural yet. He has had Mike Arneson from HBH
conduct a traffic study to ensure that this project would be safe for the community. Cindy Donovan inquired about
the actual lot sizes and how much space the actual townhome is going to take up within each individual lot. Brian
stated they would be within the guidelines of the ordinance. He stated they have a lot of flexibility for the two story
product. He stated they have more than enough room with their rear setbacks. He stated they can create a longer
driveway also
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Mike Arneson, 1970 E. 17 Street of HBH Consulting Engineers, stated they prepared a traffic impact
study for his development. He stated the study was prepared back in October when Mr. Hymel was proposing the
93 units, so the study is based on 93 units and now there are 66 units. He stated they addressed specific intersections
as suggested by the City of Ammon and explained the basis and scope of the study. They found the AM and PM
peak hours for the intersections. He presented a table in the traffic study that summarized the intersections. He
stated the size of the development is not big enough to generate enough traffic to affect how these intersections
operate. He explained at the 93 units, it generated 272 trips per day – total in and out trips. The 66 would roughly
be 2/3 of that.
It was discussed they did not analyze the Tiebreaker and John Adams intersection because City Council did
not ask them to do that. Richard Jaussi stated City Council made a big mistake by not having them include that
intersection. Mike Arneson clarified the peak hours and explained they are the numbers represented by the
occupants of the new development. He explained how they count the movement and how they add the trips to the
intersection.
Lance Bated talked about the paragraph directly below Table 1. He explained based on their observations
that 80% of the traffic will head south on Curlew, so only 20% of these will go through the John Adams and
Tiebreaker intersection. Tom Hunsaker commented the traffic study numbers apply only to the people living in the
proposed development.
Brian Hymel was called to the microphone for questions. Tom Hunsaker inquired about an overall picture
for the 66 homes and the parking issues. Brian stated they have started to plan their preliminary architectural plans
which will have 4 two car garages and 2 one car garages per building. He explained to the right of the units will be
additional parking based on our ordinance to satisfy the off street parking needs. Brian stated based on preliminary,
he will have 4 units that will be 3 bedroom – 2 ½ bath – 1400 square feet. He will have 2 units with either 3
bedroom – 2 ½ baths – 1334 sq feet or 2 bedroom - 2 ½ bath – 1232 sq feet. He would have to raise the 1232
according to the ordinance to 1300 because of the building envelope. Brian stated there are two spots for water
retention along with a community park which will have plenty of open space. Tom Hunsaker commented that on
Block 1, Lot 6 may be a bit tight. He stated Block 2, Lot 5 will be the worst headache. Lot 7 of Block 2 might be a
little tight for width for getting the whole building on because of our side yard requirements which is 30 feet on a
corner. Brian explained this is all preliminary and the architecture they are using is very interchangeable and
appreciated the information. Tom Hunsaker commented about our ordinance and each home must have its own
access from the interior to the street. The driveway will provide that. He inquired about the ownership for parking.
Brian stated he would like to put a condo plat or deed it to an association for professional management. He would
propose some type of association that would at least govern the common area. Tom commented that most
townhomes are built in a way that does not have common land ownership. Tom commented that City Council will
most likely ask about keeping a homeowner association going when they get too small. Brian stated his experience
is to have a management company control it.
Tom Hunsaker inquired as to a feeling with this type of product in this area. Brian feels it will do well.
Planning & Zoning 12/5/2007 - 2
Ron Folsom stated that we have to understand he is asking for a plat with 13 lots, 11 of which are
buildable. If this plat is granted, that house does not have to go on it. It does not lock him in to what he is
suggesting to do. He wanted everyone to understand that is not where we are at until he has the site plan. We are
looking at the lots right now. Cindy clarified we cannot change the zoning. Ron stated we are here to decide if he
meets the requirements of the R2-A zone.
Tom Hunsaker explained what the R2-A zone is. He explained when you have detached homes you have
to have at least 2 parking spaces per home. Both have to be garaged and on the property. He explained this type of
development, they have to have at least 2 ½ parking spaces if it is 3 bedroom and they can change their minds on the
lots to hold 8 apartments. The minimum side yard is 8 feet to each side, unless it next to the street which it would
have to be 30 feet. The front minimum is 30 feet and the back is 25 feet. The minimum square footage is based on
the amount of dwellings. He explained they could put in a rest home with no more than 20 guests. They have to
have at least 30% of greenspace and the building itself cannot take up more than 2/3 of the land. If they are within
10 feet on the south side, they would have to put up a buffer. If it were apartments, they would not have to have
garages.
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Frank Suitter declined to comment. He made one observation that if you measure the traffic at 1 and
Tiebreaker, then you have measured the traffic along Tiebreaker. It was discussed it does not.
Kent Wood, 865 Matchpoint Drive, stated he owns the property adjacent and he has been able to observe
traffic at Tiebreaker and John Adams. He inquired to Richard Jaussi about him stating that it is a problem there,
because he feels it is not. Richard stated he was referring to Tiebreaker and John Adams. Kent stated he has
observed it first hand. He stated there is peak traffic in the morning and afternoon and the way this is proposed; he
sees the loop will eliminate most of the traffic concerns. He feels when the road extends through, it will eliminate
the bottleneck. He favors this type of development.
Luke Stallings, 2980 Glenn Cove Court Ammon, stated he feels the traffic is not a huge issue. He has lived
there for a year and agrees the charter school brings the most traffic down John Adams. He is in favor of this
project. He felt initially there will be additional traffic, but with this project, it will bring more excitement in the
area causing the land around it to be developed and the streets will be punched through. He feels this is a great start.
He feels Brian has been very accommodating and it will be a benefit to our community.
Larry Smith, 681 Katie Court, stated he is new to the City. He is just above where this project is proposed.
He is neutral on the project because he wanted to hear what is proposed and this will directly affect him. He has 3
issues. The traffic study is good and Tiebreaker school causes a lot of traffic but he would like to address the Wal-
Mart traffic. He feels this will bring much more traffic in his area. He stated he has driven the area and likes the
spread of Ammon but feels there are too many apartments and duplexes in this area. The third issue is with parking.
He stated all the parking will be in the front of the building and feels it will look like a parking lot.
Burt Thornton, 921 Matchpoint Dr. Ammon, stated he sees Curlew as only a 60 foot wide road. He feels
once Curlew opens up you will see a major change. He inquired if there would be parking on the streets. Cindy
Donovan stated there will not be parking on the streets. He inquired about parking on Riverbend Road.
Rick McDonald, 737 Katie Court, stated he is in quandary. He inquired if this plan goes through, is he held
to the 66 units that he plans or can he change his mind and go back to the 93. Ron Folsom stated that based on the
size of the lots, he cannot really do more. He would have to have it replatted to change it at this point. Rick also
stated he has not seen a more disorganized grouping of dwellings. He feels after listening to the testimony, that it is
a choice between 66 nicer units or 93 apartment units because the zoning will not change. He wanted to voice the
concerns and frustrations of the residents in that area. He is concerned about property values in the area, however,
he would choose the 66 units. There is no satisfaction for us. They assumed different things when they bought
homes in that area.
Steve Robison, 722 Katie Court, stated this property is in his back yard. He feels the traffic study may not
be correct and the charter school affects the traffic flow which he sees the traffic increasing with this development.
He would rather not have either 66 units or 93 units. He does not like the second level.
Norm Snyder, 860 Katie Court, stated he feels the issues he has have been addressed.
Lance stated he cannot address whether no parking would be in front of residential homes already existing
on Curlew.
Brian Hymel inquired about if anyone that lives on Katie Court lives in a multi-family unit. It was
discussed everyone is single family dwelling. He stated that parking issues will be addressed and there will be
future discussions regarding the platting the site for the community to come and have input. He explained he hopes
the plat goes through and hope to have 66 new townhomes sometime this next year.
Ron Folsom stated that for everyone to be able to see what the site plan is like, they need to follow the
Planning and Zoning agendas. There is not a notice that goes out. He can make sure that they get a copy.
Planning & Zoning 12/5/2007 - 3
Tom Hunsaker inquired to Kent Wood if he noticed enough, with the traffic that goes by the school, how
many turn south versus north when it gets to Tiebreaker.
Kent Wood stated he cannot remember one way or the other. If he were to put a number to it, more people
come down John Adams and head into the school. He feels a lot of people run that stop sign.
Brian Hymel stated one more thing we need to remember there is already an issue there with traffic. He
stated the running of the stop sign is an enforcement issue and the citizens can help stop that.
Norm Snyder, 860 Katie Court, stated the issue with traffic going east on John Adams from the Charter
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School, the majority of the traffic, 65 – 70% goes north onto Tiebreaker towards 1 Street. The folks that live on
Tiebreaker have a real issue with that. It has become a real issue with traffic going north off of John Adams. He
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would like to see Curlew go straight through to 1 Street and John Adams go to 25East. He feels the issue would
meet less resistance and would be the remedy to the problem.
Cindy Donovan closed the public hearing.
Richard stated high density housing in this area is too much. He feels something has to be done for through
streets before we can think of more high density housing. He is against any more high density housing in this area.
Cindy Donovan suggested to put in to City Council an addendum that we look at rezoning the other
property or that we wait for more development to spur the development of the through streets. She would like to see
less dense housing there also.
Cindy inquired about the comp plan and what we can change.
Richard stated there comes a time when we can’t wait for developers to punch roads through.
Tom commented about traffic. He explained we need our city attorney’s help regarding rezoning. He feels
it becomes dicey. He is not sure if we need to stop issuing building permits until we get roads punched in. Tom
stated given all the factors, he is leaning towards it at this stage.
Bob stated he feels the same. He would like to see the roads get punched through, but not sure how we can
get that done.
Scott stated the developer has limited his amount of units by the way he has platted his lots which he feels
is a plus. He is punching a road through and that is a plus. It is zoned for this and he is doing a good job.
Quinn agrees with Scott. It is out of our hands to find funding for the roads. It fits all our guidelines.
Tom commented about history in this square mile. They followed Idaho Falls ordinances originally and
that is how it got out of control. Commercial property allowed for apartment units. They have fixed the ordinance
so it won’t happen in the future.
Quinn Simmons motioned to accept the preliminary plat for the Riverbend Subdivision 2007-031 as
presented. Scott seconded. Six for, Richard against. Richard stated he feels there should not be any more high
density housing in this area.
Cindy Donovan inquired about recommendations to City Council. Richard recommended that City Council
look at this square mile closely. He would like to see single family dwellings become a bigger percentage of this
square mile, if that includes changing zones, then zones should be changed. He would recommend a four way stop
on John Adams and Tiebreaker until John Adams goes all the way through. The third recommendation would be
before building permits are allowed, Curlew be punched through to First Street and John Adams be finished the way
it should have been 15 years ago, from Hitt all the way to Ammon.
ACTION ITEMS
:
A. Recommendation on Public Hearing:
Quinn motioned to recommend for no public hearing. Bob seconded.
All in favor, the motion passed.
B. Final Plat – Founders Pointe, Division #2:
Planning Director Ron Folsom explained where the property is
located.
Troy Burnett, Rocky Mountain Engineering 1550 Midway, stated they thought it would be most beneficial
to plat the remaining portion of Founder’s Pointe at the same time. He explained they had taken lots out before, but
they can easily put them back in. Tom inquired about the probability as the land to the south becomes developable,
that you would change the lots anyway. Troy explained there is not much change you could do. Troy explained
where the natural drainage would be. These are nice view lots that you would not want to change anyway.
Lance talked about the water and sewer and explained it is basically on hold until mid-January. He is
working with scenarios regarding the sewer situation.
Troy stated they are aware of the water and sewer issues. He stated there is an agreement with the City and
DEQ that they have been working on that will allow us to go forward with the final plat and not record it and be able
Planning & Zoning 12/5/2007 - 4
to put in our infrastructure at the same time as the water system is being built. They are agreeable to those
conditions. Ron explained that agreement puts the risk on the developer.
It was discussed where the water tank would be located.
Troy explained there will actually be 4 exits in the subdivision.
Tom motioned to accept the final plat for Founders Pointe Division #2 as presented with the amendment
that the five lots on the southwest portion are put back in. Richard Jaussi seconded. All in favor, the motion passed.
C. Final Plat – The Villas, Division #3:
Planning Director Ron Folsom explained where the property is located.
Troy Burnett, Rocky Mountain Engineering, explained why it was phased this way. He explained there are
major issues with the flood plain they are trying to work out and the neighboring property is helping redefine the
flood plain boundary. That is why the second phase is constructed the way it is. Lance inquired about cutting off at
a certain area. Troy stated you could look at that. They are looking at the best alternative.
Tom inquired about Bergamo Drive as it heads south. He stated there are 4 lots not shown. It was
discussed they were trying to get to a certain number of lots.
Bill Manwill, M Squared 2700 E Lincoln Road, commented about taking 7 lots off because it was a dead
end line, but it is not different than any cul-de-sac. He is wondering how much of a problem it is to have just 7 lots
on the line, there are fire hydrants that allow flushing on it. Lance stated he will address that and the maximum
allowed cul-de-sacs.
Cindy Donovan inquired about a time line. Lance stated about 6 – 8 months. He stated his main concern is
the public health and safety.
Troy stated depending on the water situation, they are looking at doing an additional phase in the next
couple of years. He stated there would be six months before the line is connected in. Cindy inquired if those lots
would be the last lots to be developed through there. Troy stated he cannot say that.
Richard Jaussi motioned to accept the final plat for the Villas Division #3 with the exception of removing
Block 14, Lots 1-4; Block 8, lot 4; Block 10, lots 1 & 2, and adding in Block 12, 4 lots to the south on each side of
Bergamo Drive. Bob seconded. All in favor, the motion passed.
DISCUSSION ITEMS
: None
REPORTS:
A. City Council Actions – Ron Folsom:
Ron explained the site plan of the Maverik property. In lieu of the
required fence on the western edge, the property owner on the west side requested the City leave the lilacs. Council
decided they will allow Maverik to not put the fence in, only as long as the lady lives there. Maverik has to escrow
the funds in the meantime. Ron explained there were several discussions regarding Hawks Landing.
B. City of Idaho Falls Planning and Zoning Actions – Cindy Donovan:
Cindy had nothing to report at this time.
C. Bonneville County Planning and Zoning actions – Tom Hunsaker:
Tom commented that they talked about
the property south by the Country Club. There is R2 and R1 land there. He stated that in October the
developer wanted to come in and put a planned unit development with density of about 700 homes, some detached
some not. In the November meeting, this was reduced to about 600 homes. He explained the County had to have a
second hearing in November because of the incorrect notification of publication. He explained the Commission
talked the developer into RA-1. It is the least restrictive rural residential zone. Tom stated because of the PUD, you
can put in a certain amount of businesses without changing the zones. He commented about having tiny business
sections in the future for Ammon.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:30 p.m.
________________________________________
Cindy Donovan, Chairman
___________________________________
Leslie Folsom, City Clerk
Planning & Zoning 12/5/2007 - 5