10012008P&ZMinutes
CITY OF AMMON
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
October 1, 2008
AGENDA:
CITY OF AMMON
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
October 1, 2008
2135 South Ammon Road 7:00 P.M.
AGENDA
I.Pledge of Allegiance:
II.Minutes:
None
III.Public Hearings:
2008-027 – Proposed Title X, Chapter 5 changes to required garages.
2008-028 – Variance (Landscaping) - Lennis Tirrell – NW Corner Ammon Rd and Sunnyside
IV.Action Items:
A.Recommendation on Public Hearings.
B.Final Plat – Doves Landing – Division 1-4
V.Discussion Items:
A.Report and discussion on future Title X changes
VI.Reports:
A.
City Council actions
B.
City of Idaho Falls Planning and Zoning actions – Cindy Donovan
C.
Bonneville County Planning and Zoning actions – Tom Hunsaker
VII.Call for Adjournment
MINUTES
Members Present:
Tom Hunsaker, Chairman
Cindy Donovan
Greg Maeser
Quinn Simmons
Richard Jaussi
Rick Butler
Scott Weasel
Steve Richards
Members Absent:
David Hill
City Officials Present:
Ron Folsom, Planning Director
Lance Bates, Engineer
Gay Leming, Deputy Clerk
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE:
Themeeting was called to order by Tom Hunsaker at 7:07 p.m. and Richard Jaussi
led the Pledge of Allegiance.
MINUTES:
None
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
Chairman Tom Hunsaker explained the process for Public Hearings.
2008-027 – Proposed Title X, Chapter 5 Changes to Required Garages:
Ron explained this is actually one
final change, to what was previously approved, that allowed smaller square footage town homes in the multi-family
zones. Ron explained this had been discussed at a prior hearing and that the proposed language is a result of discussion
10-1-2008 P&Z Minutes Page 1 of 4
with the Planning and Zoning Commission. The Planning Commission requested that Ron look at the attached garage
requirements and if the Commission should consider allowing carports or attached/detached garages. Normally the City
would be bringing this forward as a part of a group of proposed changes, but in this case SCS Development, who has
paid for the public hearing, has requested it to come forward and they are the requester at this time. This proposal only
affects the Multi-Housing R-2A, R-3, and R-3A zones.
Todd Smith 870 N 2000 W Pleasant Grove, Utah. stated this ordinance is to distinguish the difference
between apartments and townhomes, and to limit the amount of cars parked outside the unit, however, by requiring the
installation of garages on units it brings up the cost which sometimes raises the price of a unit above what an entry level
person can qualify for or limits the amenities that they might afford in upgrades to the interior: i.e. kitchens, baths, etc.
Therefore, people will move into nearby communities where they can buy a less expensive home or upgraded home
without a garage. When you require a garage on smaller homes and townhouses you end up with a street that looks
almost like storage units instead of homes, because of closeness of the garages. This causes the loss of curb appeal and
makes it harder to sell, and in some cases causes an area to become rentals. One consideration of requiring garages is
that raising the price of a unit by the cost of a garage could result in a claim made that the municipality isn’t offering
housing to entry level buyers. If a city wants to increase the overall percentage of home owners to renters, it becomes
critical that they do not limit the market unnecessarily with regards to final home price. Every dollar of expense for
homeowners’ versus renters increases the incentive for people to rent instead of buy. The lending market has changed
and people cannot qualify for higher priced homes. If a municipality wants to encourage condo conversion because you
have rentals, that you would like to convert into owner occupied it is very hard or almost impossible to retro fit a
development with an attached garage. Todd’s recommendation is to allow covered carports or attached/detached
garages in the high density areas. If you look around you will notice that a good percentage of single car garages are
used for storage, by eliminating the requirement you will reduce the cars parked on the street because the required
parking is used for parking not for storage. In carports you can’t store items in them.
Craig Hilbig, 430 Clover Ave., Idaho Falls, Id. agrees with Todd. This will give the option for affordable
ownership instead of renting, which he is doing right now.
Tom Hunsaker closed the public hearing, due to no other public participation.
Quinn stated his problem is if you have a townhouse of two units, you can have a carport. Does this override
what we are trying to accomplish? Cindy said most people developing in these zones will put more than two together.
Rick doesn’t believe this will be bad, because of difference in the more restrictive zones you have to have a garage.
Those would be the more upscale houses. The zone that allows 5 units or more is where we allow carports. Todd stated
if you drive down Hoopes in Idaho Falls, you will only see garages and it is not very attractive. Steve thinks the
market will drive the direction the developers will go. Quinn thinks we should address the size of the building and not
the zone. Ron commented what is the difference in having twin homes without garages verses 8 plexes without
garages. This is a step towards allowing multi-use. With the market today, there will be a driving force for this type of
project with more money inside the home less money outside the home. Tom stated the reason we went with the zones
instead of building is we were driving people to put 6 units and 8 units when we could have 2 units. When we go with
building, we’re driving them to bigger buildings. Scott stated he is for getting rid of the garages in the front with more
landscaping.
Richard Jaussi motioned to accept the changes as presented to Title 10, Chapter 5 of the code. Greg Maeser
seconded. All in favor – the motion passed.
2008-028 – Variance (Landscaping) - Lennis Tirrell – NW Corner Ammon Rd and Sunnyside:
Ron
explained Lennis has a 165x165 piece of land and Lennis feels by requiring 30 ft of landscaping, he will lose much of
the area, therefore Lennis is requesting asphalt to the sidewalk with no landscaping.
Roger Sheehy, Sunnyside Automotive would rather have grass, however, Lennis doesn’t want any
landscaping because of the size of the lot and the upkeep to the property. Roger would like to go to 15 ft instead of 30 ft
landscaping, as he is comparing the size of the lot to Kohl’s that has much more room and needs 30 ft. He has no
problem putting in some green space just not 30 ft, however, Lennis doesn’t want any. Roger says areas like Crazy
Corner look undesirable. He likes the landscaping since it is a barrier for traffic, litter, and more curb appeal which will
help him sell more cars. Cindy stated that without landscaping when the snow plows come, it would go onto his
parking lot instead of the landscaping strip. Scott stated that this will require a retention pond and where will it be. Ron
stated there are storm drains on this property, so there will be no retention pond needed. Tom stated one reason for
landscaping is to help with safety by allowing a safer distance for vehicle views. Roger stated Lennis is against the
landscaping due to the financial upkeep, grass, mow, sprinklers, etc. Roger doesn’t mind mowing it. Roger stated his
location will look exactly like Taylor United Homes on Anderson.
Elaine McGary at 3255 Meadow Lane, Ammon, Id. does agree the 30 ft is too much landscaping for this
size of property, and has come to believe a used car lot may not be as bad as she thought. She is in agreement with the
reduced landscaping, with the 5 foot of sidewalk and 10 feet for grass except for the corner which needs to be 30 ft.
10-1-2008 P&Z Minutes Page 2 of 4
Tom closed the public hearing, due to no other public participation.
Lance stated there are already two entrances, which are not a problem. Greg discussed whether this meets the
requirement of a variance. He went through the different rules for the granting of the variance and feels this meets all
the requirements.
Cindy Donovan moved on 2008-028 Variance for Landscaping for Lennis Tirrell that the variance is
approved based on a 15 ft. landscape strip that must be sprinkled on the sides facing Sunnyside and Ammon Road and
that no variance for walls is granted on the other two sides of the property, subject to technical review, and must have
the full safety triangle on the corner of the two arterial roads. Richard Jaussi seconded. Ron asked the attorneys on the
commission if we are going to make recommendation for approval shouldn’t they deny it first and then recommend
what they will allow. Greg Maeser stated he is not the attorney for this board but if he was, he would say the
commission should vote on it as it was presented. The problem is he is only asking for a variance and theoretically he
wished they had said wanted landscaping change but he stated no landscaping. Ron stated the commission should deny
it as presented and make a motion. Cindy Donovan withdrew her motion. Richard Jaussi accepted the withdrawal.
Greg Maeser motioned that the commission deny the variance that was requested here tonight that allowed for
no landscaping. Quinn Simmons seconded. All in favor – the motion passed.
Cindy Donovan motioned to recommend to the City Council on 2008-028 Variance for Landscaping for
Lennis Tirrell that the variance is approved based on a 15 ft. landscape strip that must be sprinkled on the sides facing
Sunnyside and Ammon Road and that no variance for walls is granted on the other two sides of the property, subject to
technical review, and must have the full safety triangle on the corner of the two arterial roads. Richard Jaussi seconded.
All in favor – the motion passed.
Greg Maeser and Richard Jaussi left.
ACTION ITEMS:
A. Recommendation on Public Hearings:
Steve Richards moved to recommend to the City Council that they
not hold public hearings on 2008-027 proposed change to Title 10, Chapter 5 regarding garages and 2008-028
landscaping variance requested by Mr. Tirrell of the northwest corner of Ammon Road and Sunnyside. Quinn
Simmons seconded. All in favor – the motion carried.
B. Final Plat – Doves Landing – Division 1-4:
Ron explained where the location is. He explained there are
several conditions that were put on the preliminary when it was before Council; part of it was the development on
stth
Crowley and 21, flood plain which will include the flood channel, and participation of a stoplight on 17 Street.
Mitchell Greer, Rocky Mountain Engineering & Surveying, 1550 Midway, stated due to economic conditions
they have had to close their Ammon office and are now dealing out of Pocatello for the time being. They are trying to
develop what is west of the flood channel, building the residential first. They are going to be working with Lance to
correct any looping for water issues they might have. In the past they had increased the commercial area and took the
access off of the main roads and eliminated alot of roads in the development. They have reserved what they believe
will be the flood channel; however, other factions are working on the location of this. They are aware of the
requirement for participation on the stoplight and will probably tie into the Villas for water.
Tom asked about Division 2, Lots 3 and 4, block 6 are those wide enough to meet our minimum
requirements? Mitchell stated he will review the setbacks and make sure they meet the minimum. Tom stated they
might want to review a few others, also.
Lance stated he doesn’t want approval of the final plat because it will not work from the City point of
view with the Phases as shown. Lance was concerned because even with the technical review in the motion, when you
start adding lots and moving lines is that a technical review or a design change. Ron told the commission they may not
want to approve this before the flood channel is finalized and there are also sewer issues. Cindy stated she is concerned
there are too many questions, up in arms, to approve this.
Steve Richards motioned to table the final plat Dove’s Landing Division 1-4 so they can work out the
technical issues with the City Engineer until the next scheduled meeting. Quinn Simmons seconded. All in favor – the
motion passed.
DISCUSSION ITEMS:
A. Report and Discussion on Future Title X Changes:
Ron asked the Commissions’ opinion with the 10 day
deadlines and he gives it to Lance whose schedule doesn’t allow this short of time and would like to extend it to 30
days, the same as hearings. The commission was fine with this change.
REPORTS:
10-1-2008 P&Z Minutes Page 3 of 4
A. City Council Actions:
Ron advised the commission that the budget was approved. The fire department is nearing
completion. The biggest issue is the upsize on sewer improvements on Sunnyside since George McDaniel’s death the
existing agreement cannot be used until probate is completed. The City is planning to make it mandatory for water
meters to be installed at the time of the building permit. There will be a public hearing tomorrow night for a garbage
rate increase. The police contract was approved for $929,031.00. The proposed Certificate of Occupancy penalty of
$2500 plus $200 per day for moving into a home without the permit, has been reduced to $500 for residential and $1000
for commercial plus $200 per day.
Lance stated he got approval for Well House 10 and 11.
B. City of Idaho Falls Planning and Zoning Actions:
Cindy Donovan stated there was nothing to report.
C. Bonneville County Planning and Zoning Actions:
– Tom Hunsaker stated there was nothing to report.
Commissioner Rick Butler motioned to adjourn. Commissioner Steve Richards seconded. All in favor – the
meeting adjourned.
The meeting adjourned at 9:16 p.m.
___________________________________________
Tom Hunsaker, Chairman
______________________________________
Leslie Folsom, City Clerk
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