Loading...
05142009CouncilMinutes-WS CITY OF AMMON CITY COUNCIL MINUTES - WORK SESSION THURSDAY, MAY 14, 2009 AGENDA: CITY OF AMMON 2135 SOUTH AMMON ROAD CITY COUNCIL AGENDA – WORK SESSION THURSDAY, MAY 14, 2009 – 4:00 P.M. DISCUSSION ITEMS: 1.LDS Church Parking Presentation (Ron) 2.BDPA Pay Scale Proposal (Dana/Jennifer) 3.Update Falcon Park Access (Leslie) 4.Misc. MINUTES City Officials Present: Mayor Bruce Ard Councilmember Dana Kirkham Councilmember Lee Bean Councilmember Brian Powell Councilmember Rex Thompson Councilmember D. Ray Ellis City Attorney Scott Hall City Clerk Leslie Folsom City Treasurer Jennifer Belfield City Planning Director Ron Folsom City Engineer Lance Bates City Officials Absent: Councilmember Randy Waite Mayor Ard opened the meeting at 4:12 p.m. at the City Office Building located at 2135 South Ammon Road. DISCUSSION ITEMS: 1. LDS Church Parking Presentation (Ron): Alan Kristine, project manager for the church since October and is filling in for Terry Bradshaw, real estate project manager for the church. Mike Arneson, Consulting Engineer with HBH stated they engaged with the church last fall to look at some parking components. The purpose of the study is to work with the City and try to arrive at what the actual parking needs are for the church. They are based on the areas used simultaneously for assembly purposes. They used square footage or number of seats whichever is greater. They reiterated what the codes are with the Ammon codes for a church type facility. The square foot method ends up being a higher number of spots so, that’s what they use as a target. They went out and observed in the field both Ammon and Rexburg with actual parking conditions. They looked at a multi-stake conference and during that particular day the chart shows how many parking spots were used. There were 24 cars parked in other parking areas on that day. This was the day they created Ammon North Stake. Councilmember Thompson said that was only 34% and one ward. In Rexburg they had a stake conference; there was 14-21% vacancy in the 2 sessions. Councilmember Kirkham asked what time of day. Mike th said at 11 am. Councilmember Kirkham stated that would be when the wards are changing. On December 7 they observed regular sessions and the lot’s averaged 48% vacancy. Councilmember Ellis said you are stating at this time the buildings had 2 wards overlapping, the parking lot was half empty. Councilmember Kirkham said there is th no way. Two weeks later in November they observed the same issues also at 11 am. On Jan. 18 in Tiebreaker the numbers were very similar. Councilmember Thompson said there are always 20 on the street. Mike said he didn’t count those. Councilmember Bean asked when they observed Rexburg. Mike said same time. Councilmember City Council Minutes 5-14-09 Page 1 of 4 Bean said the parking spots are very similar but their vacancy is much more. Councilmember Bean asked if they have to walk to their locations. Mike said that might be a factor. Mike said one is East Rexburg in the main residential. Mike concluded their findings are the church has designed for capacity of parking. To summarize the maximum observed parking at a stake center was 311 spaces and a regular meeting Sunday was 162. The maximum demand is what the City has required. City code, in conjunction with the church, seems to match up well but it doesn’t mean we won’t have a peak event and so we want to design to a peak event. Councilmember Bean asked to go to the new Legacy print and the darkened areas are either light or dark. Councilmember Bean asked when you say darkened area’s what do they represent. Scott Nelson, 990 John Adams Parkway, Idaho Falls explained the plans to the Council. Councilmember Bean asked Ron what we term as simultaneous use. Ron said used at the same time since our ordinance doesn’t allow for overlap. Ron took them to someone who would know how the church operates and calculated the most amount of space that is simultaneous. He had outlines of stake meetings and regular meetings and went to the higher number for parking. Councilmember Bean said because of the new heritage design they would typically use the cultural hall. Councilmember Ellis said we have multiple wards and the other ward is using the cultural hall. Councilmember Kirkham said this is why the coatrooms are now classrooms, since the design doesn’t work. Councilmember Bean asked what a typical split number would be. Scott said 600 is a typical split. Councilmember Kirkham said you have to go with square footage since membership fluctuates. Councilmember Powell said some families drive multiple vehicles. Scott said Ron has stated that some churches also have these concerns. Councilmember Powell said the concern is the parking lots are not being used fully and you are asking for less parking. Scott said the current guidelines for Southeastern Idaho are 180 to 200 spaces for a heritage. Scott said their parking was figured that every space in the church was being used. Ron stated the Bridgewater building is a heritage building which requires 260 spaces. Tiebreaker has been an exception and Councilmember Ellis said it’s been a nightmare ever sense. Scott said he thinks the church was questioning their numbers. Councilmember Bean said people will park on the streets whether they have parking or not. Mike had the Council to go to page 4 and the Heritage Building would require 206 spaces. If we say the entire building is used simultaneously, it would require 260, almost 100 more than it typically needs. Ron asked concerning the Green Willow building and asked what rooms they would normally use on a Sunday. Councilmember Powell asked how many parking stalls are used by the Cottages building. Councilmember Thompson said Tiebreaker has 195 spots and there are times when there aren’t enough spots. Councilmember Ellis said if you do away with the overlap then the numbers would be good. Scott said they do it based on the leaders and the changes in spaces that are needed. Councilmember Bean said we live in a unique area and the plowing of snow is one of the items that we have to take into allowance. Scott said they leave open landscape areas for the snow to be pushed into. Alan said he thinks we are being a lot more sensitive to that. The published standard is 130-180 parking spaces for the nation. Councilmember Powell said but our areas of such high number count that the numbers need to be greater. Alan said Idaho has been putting in more parking than any other state. Within a year, maybe 2 they would no longer be building massive meeting houses. The church will be going to electronic distribution for the large gatherings. Everyone will go to the meeting house where they normally go to and participate in conferences via internet connections. This is how the church is going to save money on areas where the church building has been used for large gatherings only twice a year. With electronic technologies that are becoming useful, we can do that. It will also impact the future use of the meeting houses. The question becomes do we design for the largest capacity or do we try to balance it for what we would want to use the building for as the area grows. Scott said the church’s philosophy is not to build before the growth but to wait for the growth. Councilmember Powell said is that just for Idaho, since I have seen it different in Utah. Scott said yes, that is very typical. Councilmember Powell asked if they are still going to figure on three wards per building. Scott said we typically build with church policy of 200-205 and Bozeman is the only place that has the numbers that Ammon has. He understands that Ammon has a high occupancy rate and it has really been an anomaly. Councilmember Kirkham asked Ron if the ordinance can be changed for easy interpretation. Ron said the problem with the LDS church is they use all the meeting rooms unless they aren’t in session and the other churches don’t have the overlap. Councilmember Kirkham said if we were to modify the ordinance for the assembly areas would that would apply to most denominations. Ron said yes. Councilmember Kirkham said she would like it to say open areas. Councilmember Ellis said one per every 35 sq ft used simultaneously. Councilmember Bean said we are trying to scale our ordinance to meet the needs of the LDS church and that’s not what we are saying. City Council Minutes 5-14-09 Page 2 of 4 Councilmember Kirkham said all denominations are having a problem. Ron said the Berean’s didn’t have a problem but the Jehovah’s Witnesses did have a problem. Ron said it was figured on simultaneous use. Ron said they had a meeting hall and the difference was 10 to 15. Ron suggested sitting with Scott and seeing what they determine as simultaneous use. Ron said it did show classrooms being used. Councilmember Kirkham said that is what you consider simultaneous use. Ron said then those numbers would come down and he said less parking is better. Councilmember Bean said we want to be sensitive but doesn’t want it to be based on the LDS church only. Councilmember Bean said when you have overlaps, there is simultaneous use. Alan said the ordinance could read: areas typically simultaneously used. They use the buildings uniquely so this is what makes it hard when they are looking for an interpretation. Councilmember Bean suggested saying an assembly hall which may include these items. Councilmember Kirkham said what he is saying is it’s better to say typically simultaneously. And we can apply the same principal at, for example, the Elk’s Lodge. Councilmember Kirkham said they would fill their gymnasium every week. Councilmember Powell asked what their capacity is. Alan said 302 and legacy is around 1,000. Scott said the church intent is a 110% chapel and they don’t like to see them in the cultural hall and they st don’t want that to be a permanent situation. Worst case condition is when the 1 ward leaves to go to the nd classrooms and the 2 ward comes in to go to the chapel. Ron said we don’t have to change the ordinance but we have to change the interpretation of the ordinance. Ron said from a planner’s standpoint asphalt is bad and green is good. Ron said you can go to the Baptist Church and the LDS Church comparing uses of classrooms but the church has done that and this is an interpretation. Ron said the legacy was so high because we made them calculate everything. Councilmember Bean asked Ron if all the churches were based on square footage. Ron said we use a combination if we have the seats or if they have additional square footage. Ron said they calculate how many seats are fixed and how much room is left besides. Ron said it is based off of stake Sunday’s not a typical day. Stake conference doesn’t use most of the classrooms but regular sessions use classrooms. Ron stated if we didn’t take stake Sunday into account, the numbers would drop. Councilmember Bean asked Ron if he felt comfortable in using this as a calculation. Ron said he would like Scott to come in and explain what they are using. Heritage buildings are always 16,558 sq ft. Councilmember Kirkham asked Ron to sit down with Scott and see if it is comparable. Councilmember Bean said he thinks what Dana is trying to say is; take this and see if it meets our ordinance requirements. Alan said the official stated capacity of the Heritage is 350, an additional 580 in the cultural hall, 80 in relief society and 50 in primary. The Legacy used for stake centers holds 420 in the chapel, 760 in the cultural hall, 90 in relief society and 80 in primary. 2. BDPA Pay Scale Proposal (Dana/Jennifer): Jennifer explained she talked with BDPA which prepares pay grade and scales for Cities and Counties. Their rates are more affordable, at this time, due to the economic situations. Council asked Jennifer if she could come up with the pay scale. Jennifer stated she will try to create a rate structure with Mayor Ard. 3. Update Falcon Park Access (Leslie): Ken presented how Mr. Curran on the Falcon Park Access is progressing on his landscape removal. Mr. Curran stated he had received the regular mail and is fine with everything. Mr. Curran is progressing slowly but Ken’s department will help him move some of those items. Councilmember Kirkham asked Ken where we are with the pool. Leslie explained how the resolution and publication are progressing with the pool rates and she has showed Jennifer Kerner how she has to obey the resolution for rates. Ken said Jennifer Kerner is the manager and he is trying to communicate better with her. Councilmember Kirkham said there is a list of items that aren’t negotiable. Councilmember Kirkham stated she will get with Councilmember Waite and have him send an email with what is negotiable and what is not negotiable and who is in charge of what, so it is in writing to Ken, Jennifer Belfield, Jennifer Kerner and Leslie. 4. Misc.: Leslie reminded the Council of Hawk’s Landing Grand Opening tomorrow at 5 pm with the Mayor attending at 4:45 pm. Leslie showed the Council that the City of Idaho Falls has put some dumpsters throughout the City for people to put items in. Mayor Ard said he has talked with some people and he has told them to call the City to place a few dumpsters for their use for clean-up items. City Council Minutes 5-14-09 Page 3 of 4 Leslie said EIRMC has called back with rates for physicals for CDL licensing. The price varies from $130 to $200 for the full physical. It varies by age, doctor chosen and type of license for the basic and if further studies are needed, they would be additional charges. Lance said since they aren’t over the road CDL’s they haven’t been getting the physicals. Leslie stated she wasn’t familiar with CDL’s. Councilmember Ellis said once you have a physical to get your license you don’t need a physical again. She stated she will look at the other options. They have Medcor that charges $70 for us to call in to check and see if we need to go to the doctor. Leslie said she would like to continue doing it the current way, which is she evaluates whether they should go immediately in or wait and see how they feel. She does the accident report form, in case they need to go to the hospital later. Council concurred to continue as we have been doing. The case management will still be available to the City and she feels this is extremely important since it will allow us to monitor anyone who does have to go to the hospital. Council concurred to proceed with the hospital for workmen’s comp. Leslie updated the Council on Ammon Days. As they know Biolife has came into play. Councilmember Ellis stated he wanted it to be about Ammon and not Biolife. Leslie asked if the brochure was the way they wanted it. Councilmember Kirkham said Biolife needs to be prepared for the free dinner. Leslie asked Ken to explain how the funds are being disbursed. Biolife is helping with the labor and bands. Leslie explained that Biolife is putting in $5000 and Ammon is putting in $10,000 and merging the funds, so Biolife might not be covering all their night expenses with their $5000 and some of Ammon’s funds will go into it. Councilmember Powell said on the dinner that night they might want to look at charging $1. Councilmember Bean asked if we are spreading this out too long for the day. Leslie said people come and go all day long. Councilmember Bean said let’s see how it goes. Councilmember Bean stated he has not been doing anything with the police study and hopes the Council is ok. Councilmember Kirkham said they are fine with it. Councilmember Bean motioned to enter into executive session pursuant to Idaho Code 67-2345, subsection 1 (a). Councilmember Kirkham seconded. Roll Call Vote: Councilmember Bean – Yes, Councilmember Kirkham – Yes, Councilmember Thompson – Yes, Councilmember Powell – Yes and Councilmember Ellis – Yes. The motion passed. The meeting adjourned at 5:35 pm. ___________________________________________ C. Bruce Ard, Mayor ______________________________________ Leslie Folsom, City Clerk City Council Minutes 5-14-09 Page 4 of 4